In Search of the Happiness Max
mjolkk:

crosswhenwegetthere:

#HawkeyeInitiative at #ECCC. He was our hero.

hey everybody, meet my badass friend matt who spent the whole day showing off his baaaaaaaaaaaaaad~ ass

BOTTOM… and awesome dude attached. Thanks, awesome dude!

mjolkk:

crosswhenwegetthere:

#HawkeyeInitiative at #ECCC. He was our hero.

hey everybody, meet my badass friend matt who spent the whole day showing off his baaaaaaaaaaaaaad~ ass

BOTTOM… and awesome dude attached. Thanks, awesome dude!

thehawkeyeinitiative:









ramonvillalobos

So here’s the thing, I’m more than willing to accept that I’m wrong here because I don’t consider myself the expert on gender inequalities in comics or whatever BUT I’ve noticed that a few of these Hawkeye initiative things have taken relatively tame examples of sexist poses in comic art and stretched the whole point way thin for comedic effect. The majority of them have not, but there have been a few that made me go, “Really? That’s too much?”
As a guy that’s drawing comics, I’ve drawn my share of women and I honestly don’t have to try very hard to keep it tame because that’s just not my style. I’m not really that guy. I’m kind of prudish. See for yourself. You can probably find some examples of art I’ve drawn and say “No Ramon, you’re ignorantly contributing to the perpetuation of this whole thing” and if you do, sorry about that but here’s the thing, it’s just men doing this stuff. I’ve seen a lot of women at cons selling art that features the same kind of distasteful art as men. If I wanted to, I could probably find a bunch of female comic artists doing the same thing but they’re generally not held to that same standard. I know you’re probably thinking that I’m using a false equivalency here, and because there are SOOO many more men that draw terrible comics, I’m not sure I’d disagree with you on that point. That doesn’t really change the fact that I would be much more likely to be considered a sexist comic book artist than a female comic artist. I’m not asking for sympathy or anything, I just would like to raise that counterpoint, if I may.
I guess the real point of this is to ask where the line is? I feel like I know where it is but seeing some of these submissions have made me second guess myself.





(italics & bold added by me)I think Ramon raises an really interesting point here; where is the line? At what point does artwork become hyper-sexualized, physically preposterous, and in general unacceptable?
(I’m sure that this post is going to generate a lot of response, but I cannot reblog everything here. Instead, please reblog this on your own Tumblr with your comments and be sure to tag it with “The Hawkeye Initiative” and “Where Is the Line” - I’m going to add a link in the sidebar to the tag search.)




I’m surprised by the people commenting on the fact that many of these poses are ‘possible’ or ‘tame’. I think the reason we’re getting so many pictures like these is that women are standing up to say that it’s not just EscherGirls (women in improbable or impossible poses with improbable or impossible bodies) that are the problem. Sometimes it’s the little gestures that present women as less valid entities than men - that women are for the viewer’s consumption, and their charater is being sacrificed in subtle ways for the (presumed male, straight) viewer’s pleasure in them.
The above pose is not impossible, but should it be considered reasonable? Don’t you see that when it’s a man in this pose he looks a little ridiculous, and not strong? That our eyes are drawn to his chest and crotch by the nature of the pose and the costume, not to his face and the strength in his ams? In some ways I find these pictures MORE valuable than the ones where he’s stretched out of all recognition. It’s easy to look at a twisted up EscherGirl and say that this is bad art and that the artist has no concept of anatomy. It’s important to get people to do that because this bizarre anatomy has been normalised to a shocking extent. However, the more casual and subtle ways women are undermined in comics are also really important to highlight. If you can’t see what’s wrong in this picture if the character is meant to be looking strong in this pose, then it’s not the submitter’s problem for presenting something that you find acceptable - it’s that you need to reflect on why you thought something was OK that someone else cared enough to take the time to draw.

thehawkeyeinitiative:

ramonvillalobos

image

So here’s the thing, I’m more than willing to accept that I’m wrong here because I don’t consider myself the expert on gender inequalities in comics or whatever BUT I’ve noticed that a few of these Hawkeye initiative things have taken relatively tame examples of sexist poses in comic art and stretched the whole point way thin for comedic effect. The majority of them have not, but there have been a few that made me go, “Really? That’s too much?”

As a guy that’s drawing comics, I’ve drawn my share of women and I honestly don’t have to try very hard to keep it tame because that’s just not my style. I’m not really that guy. I’m kind of prudish. See for yourself. You can probably find some examples of art I’ve drawn and say “No Ramon, you’re ignorantly contributing to the perpetuation of this whole thing” and if you do, sorry about that but here’s the thing, it’s just men doing this stuff. I’ve seen a lot of women at cons selling art that features the same kind of distasteful art as men. If I wanted to, I could probably find a bunch of female comic artists doing the same thing but they’re generally not held to that same standard. I know you’re probably thinking that I’m using a false equivalency here, and because there are SOOO many more men that draw terrible comics, I’m not sure I’d disagree with you on that point. That doesn’t really change the fact that I would be much more likely to be considered a sexist comic book artist than a female comic artist. I’m not asking for sympathy or anything, I just would like to raise that counterpoint, if I may.

I guess the real point of this is to ask where the line is? I feel like I know where it is but seeing some of these submissions have made me second guess myself.

(italics & bold added by me)
I think Ramon raises an really interesting point here; where is the line? At what point does artwork become hyper-sexualized, physically preposterous, and in general unacceptable?


(I’m sure that this post is going to generate a lot of response, but I cannot reblog everything here. Instead, please reblog this on your own Tumblr with your comments and be sure to tag it with “The Hawkeye Initiative” and “Where Is the Line” - I’m going to add a link in the sidebar to the tag search.)

I’m surprised by the people commenting on the fact that many of these poses are ‘possible’ or ‘tame’. I think the reason we’re getting so many pictures like these is that women are standing up to say that it’s not just EscherGirls (women in improbable or impossible poses with improbable or impossible bodies) that are the problem. Sometimes it’s the little gestures that present women as less valid entities than men - that women are for the viewer’s consumption, and their charater is being sacrificed in subtle ways for the (presumed male, straight) viewer’s pleasure in them.

The above pose is not impossible, but should it be considered reasonable? Don’t you see that when it’s a man in this pose he looks a little ridiculous, and not strong? That our eyes are drawn to his chest and crotch by the nature of the pose and the costume, not to his face and the strength in his ams? In some ways I find these pictures MORE valuable than the ones where he’s stretched out of all recognition. It’s easy to look at a twisted up EscherGirl and say that this is bad art and that the artist has no concept of anatomy. It’s important to get people to do that because this bizarre anatomy has been normalised to a shocking extent. However, the more casual and subtle ways women are undermined in comics are also really important to highlight. If you can’t see what’s wrong in this picture if the character is meant to be looking strong in this pose, then it’s not the submitter’s problem for presenting something that you find acceptable - it’s that you need to reflect on why you thought something was OK that someone else cared enough to take the time to draw.